来自艺术世家的收藏家吴亦深是早期专注于计算机生成艺术的中国艺术家之一。基于对艺术的研究和对个人身份的挖掘，他在36岁时创立了MUD画廊，他在这里注入了自己的个性和品位，同时也在这里展示了他的部分艺术收藏。它位于上海M50创意园的一栋大楼里。
LARRY'S LIST采访了吴亦深，了解他的收藏历程和理念，为什么古代和现代艺术并列对他来说如此有趣；他最新购买的艺术品；他在生成艺术方面的经验；以及他对NFT艺术的看法。
Coming from a family of artists, collector Wu Yishen is one of the early Chinese artists who focus on computer-generated art. Based on his research on art and digging into his personal identity, he founded MUD Gallery at the age of 36, which he has imbued with his personality and taste, and where he also showcases part of his art collection. It is located in a building in Shanghai’s M50 Creative Park.
LARRY’S LIST interviewed Wu Yishen about his collecting journey and philosophy, why juxtaposing ancient and modern art is so interesting to him; his latest artwork purchases; his experiences in generative art; as well as his views on NFT art.
· 生成艺术和中国古典艺术之间的旅程 ·
A Journey between Generative Art and Classical Chinese Art
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Wu Yishen. Courtesy of MUD Gallery
LL：是什么让你想开始收藏艺术品？你的家庭对你的收藏兴趣有什么影响？
Wu Yishen：我的家庭对我的影响比 "影响 "更大。在艺术界，每个认识我的人都会强调我的曾祖父和祖父，他们的收藏和专著经常可以在世界各地看到。而时至今日，我所有的尝试都还在试图解开他们艺术思想中的一小段密码。
LL：What made you want to start collecting art? How has your family influenced your interest in collecting?
Wu Yishen：My family has done more to me than “influence”. In the art world, everyone who knows me highlights my great-grandfather and grandfather, whose collections and monographs can often be seen all over the world. And to this day, all my attempts are still trying to unravel a small piece of code in their artistic ideas.
LL：你的收藏理念是如何演变的？每个阶段的重点有什么不同？
Wu Yishen：从我个人的角度来看，从一开始，我就想了解中国古代艺术与互联网时代的联系；在2014年之前，我的精力主要集中在对中国古代各个学科的研究上；在过去的几年里，我扩大了对古代艺术和世界各地20世纪各种现代艺术流派的研究；直到最近两年，才完全稳定了如何解释我最初课题的认知结构。现在我清楚地知道我需要什么。
LL：How has your collecting philosophy evolved? What are the differences in focus at each stage?
Wu Yishen：From my personal point of view, from the beginning, I wanted to understand the connection between ancient Chinese art and the Internet age; before 2014, my energy was mainly focused on the study of various disciplines of ancient China; in the past few years, I have expanded my studies of ancient art and various 20th-century modern art schools from around the world; and it is only in the last two years that the cognitive structure of how to interpret my initial topic has fully stabilized. Now I know exactly what I need.
The interior of the MUD Gallery and the collection.
Courtesy of MUD Gallery
LL：是什么让你想开始收藏艺术品？你的家庭对你的收藏兴趣有什么影响？
Wu Yishen：我的家庭对我的影响比 "影响 "更大。在艺术界，每个认识我的人都会强调我的曾祖父和祖父，他们的收藏和专著经常可以在世界各地看到。而时至今日，我所有的尝试都还在试图解开他们艺术思想中的一小段密码。
LL：What made you want to start collecting art? How has your family influenced your interest in collecting?
Wu Yishen：My family has done more to me than “influence”. In the art world, everyone who knows me highlights my great-grandfather and grandfather, whose collections and monographs can often be seen all over the world. And to this day, all my attempts are still trying to unravel a small piece of code in their artistic ideas.
Sage Jenson, 36Points #07. Courtesy of MUD Gallery
LL：到目前为止，您有多少件艺术品？你在哪里展示你的收藏？
Wu Yishen：与作品数量相比，我更清楚自己的重点方向，我在M50的6号楼5楼有一个空间，MUD画廊，感兴趣的朋友可以来找我。
LL：How many artworks do you have so far? Where do you display your collection?
Wu Yishen：Compared with the number of works, I know the direction of my focus better, and I have a space, MUD Gallery, on the 5th floor of Building 6 in M50, and interested friends can come to me.
LL：您最早和最近收藏的艺术作品是什么？
Wu Yishen：我最早收藏的作品之一是何赛邦先生的水墨。最近，从去年弗里德里希-艾因霍夫的 "万一 "展览中购买了一些作品。
LL：What was your earliest and most recent piece of art?
Wu Yishen：One of the first works in my collection was Mr. Ho Saibang’s ink. Recently, there was a purchase of works from last year’s “What in Case” exhibition of Friedrich Einhoff.
LL：最早和最近购买的作品看起来风格完全不同，它们之间有什么联系吗？
Wu Yishen：带有复古色彩的 "新欧亚侘寂"。
LL：The earliest and most recent purchases appear to be completely different style, is there a thread or theme that connects them?
Wu Yishen：“New Eurasian Wabi-sabu” with retro overtones.
LL："合成 "和 "转换 "是您收藏的一个重要部分，将不同时代的作品并置在一起会产生共鸣。
Wu Yishen：我认为，"1+1>2 "的组合是拥有艺术品的最大乐趣之一--中国古代文房中的香具和茶具的组合就很好地体现了这一动态。古今交融是一种自由与深度的自然交流，往往会给生活带来惊喜，当然，这也是狭隘圈子的反面。
LL：“Synthesis” and “transformation” is a big part of your collection, and the juxtaposition of works from across the ages resonates.
Wu Yishen：I believe that the combination of “1 + 1 > 2” is one of the greatest pleasures of owning works of art—the combination of incense and tea sets in ancient Chinese literary rooms is a very testament of this dynamic. Mixing ancient and modern is a natural communication of freedom and depth, often bringing surprises to life, of course—this is also the opposite of narrow circles.
Wu Yishen’s collection of exotic wood
Courtesy of MUD Gallery.
He Saibang, Book of Heaven, 410 x 77 cm
Courtesy of MUD Gallery
MUD Gallery Interior of the mud space
Courtesy of MUD Gallery
LL：您能谈谈您对弗里德里希-艾因霍夫作品的收藏以及吸引您的原因吗？
Wu Yishen：在我看来，现在是中国开始系统地感受世界城市文明的时候了，在时机成熟的时候，有规律地收藏一位有一定分量的艺术家的作品是有效的方法之一，我很欣赏艾因霍夫对合成材料的涉猎，以及作品的完成度、施坦威钢琴的严谨性，这与MUD画廊的兴趣非常吻合。另外，我发现 "90后 "比我们更能有效地从各个地方发现信息，支持这种行为对大家来说都是一件好事。
LL：Can you tell us about your collection of Friedrich Einhoff’s work and what attracted you?
Wu Yishen：In my opinion, it is time for China to begin to experience the urban civilization of the world in a systematic way, and when the timing is right, a disciplined collection of an artist of certain importance is one of the effective methods; and I appreciate Einhoff’s dabbling in synthetic materials, as well as the completion of the work, the rigor of the Steinway piano, which is very in line with the interest of MUD Gallery. In addition, I found that the post-90s generation are able to more effectively discover information from various places than us, and supporting such behavior should be a good thing for everyone.
LL：您认为决定私人收藏成功的关键因素是什么？
Wu Yishen：艺术收藏的成功很难定义，也不需要千篇一律；在我看来，经过时间的沉淀和必要的自我完善之后，重要的是仍然知道自己在做什么，并且乐在其中。
LL：What do you think are the key factors that determine the success of a private collection?
Wu Yishen：The success of art collecting is too difficult to define and does not need to be uniform; and it seems to me that after time and necessary self-improvement, it is important to still know what you are doing and enjoy it.
LL：您能谈谈您对弗里德里希-艾因霍夫作品的收藏以及吸引您的原因吗？
Wu Yishen：在我看来，现在是中国开始系统地感受世界城市文明的时候了，在时机成熟的时候，有规律地收藏一位有一定分量的艺术家的作品是有效的方法之一，我很欣赏艾因霍夫对合成材料的涉猎，以及作品的完成度、施坦威钢琴的严谨性，这与MUD画廊的兴趣非常吻合。另外，我发现 "90后 "比我们更能有效地从各个地方发现信息，支持这种行为对大家来说都是一件好事。
LL：Can you tell us about your collection of Friedrich Einhoff’s work and what attracted you?
Wu Yishen：In my opinion, it is time for China to begin to experience the urban civilization of the world in a systematic way, and when the timing is right, a disciplined collection of an artist of certain importance is one of the effective methods; and I appreciate Einhoff’s dabbling in synthetic materials, as well as the completion of the work, the rigor of the Steinway piano, which is very in line with the interest of MUD Gallery. In addition, I found that the post-90s generation are able to more effectively discover information from various places than us, and supporting such behavior should be a good thing for everyone.
LL：您认为决定私人收藏成功的关键因素是什么？
Wu Yishen：艺术收藏的成功很难定义，也不需要千篇一律；在我看来，经过时间的沉淀和必要的自我完善之后，重要的是仍然知道自己在做什么，并且乐在其中。
LL：What do you think are the key factors that determine the success of a private collection?
Wu Yishen：The success of art collecting is too difficult to define and does not need to be uniform; and it seems to me that after time and necessary self-improvement, it is important to still know what you are doing and enjoy it.
Friedrich Einhoff’s work is displayed in the MUD Gallery
Courtesy of MUD Gallery
Wu Yishen’s interactive generative work “Tentacle Star” created in college. Courtesy of MUD Gallery
LL：您对生成艺术的兴趣是如何开始的？
Wu Yishen：我父亲除了教我诗歌、书法和插画之外，还教我玩电子游戏；我从小就发现，只要接触游戏机，孩子们就不喜欢玩具和动画片之类的东西，这种情况会一直持续到我大学毕业。因此，我认为游戏形式的艺术将是未来最有可能存在的形式。
2000年左右，我刚上大学，当时互联网发展迅速，全球的生成艺术前辈们开始免费分享他们的作品。我用仅有的零花钱买了几本书，做了自己的作品网站；由于家庭原因，我把传统文化进行了各种改造，做成了代码生成艺术作品，2006年毕业后参加了李亮先生在东联画廊（MUD画廊原址，M506号楼5层）举办的 "扩张的转折 "展览。没想到的是，随着技术和潮流的发展，这个流派现在真的成了世界上最热门的中心之一。
LL：How did your interest in generative art begin?
Wu Yishen：My dad taught me to play video games in addition to teaching me poetry, calligraphy, and illustration; and I discovered from an early age that children don’t like things like toys and cartoons as long as they touch game consoles, and this will continue until I graduate from college. So, I think the game form of art will be the most likely form of future existence.
Around 2000, when I was just in college, when the Internet was developing rapidly, the global generative art seniors began to share their works for free. I used my only pocket money to buy some books, and made my own work website; due to family reasons, I made various transformations of traditional culture into code generation artworks, and joined “The Expansion Turn” exhibition after graduation in 2006, held by Mr. Li Liang at the East Link Gallery (the original site of the MUD Gallery on the 5th floor of Building M50 6). What I didn’t expect was that with the development of technology and trends, this genre has now really become one of the hottest centers in the world.
LL：从NFT艺术家到收藏NFT是什么时候开始的？目前收藏了哪些NFT作品？
Wu Yishen：这又是一个完全的巧合，一个朋友把我介绍给了在中国做这个门类的尼尔数码团队，他们很欣赏我当年的作品，于是我又做回了艺术家，同时也有机会静下心来，从回顾的角度来审视我的人生到今天的前因后果。
我开始与世界各地的艺术家交流，关注生成艺术在中国的发展，收集当年为我提供免费资源的前辈们的作品，以及生成艺术的先驱Herbert W. Franke和90年代德国年轻艺术家Sage Jenson的作品。在专业的生成艺术圈子里，确实有很多优秀的内容。
LL：When did the transition from being an NFT artist to collecting NFT come about? What NFT works are currently in the collection?
Wu Yishen：This is another complete coincidence, a friend introduced me to the Neal Digital team who is doing this category in China, they appreciated my work back then, so I became an artist again, and at the same time, I had the opportunity to calm down and look at the cause and effect in my life up to today from a retrospective perspective.
I began to communicate with artists around the world and followed the development of generative art in China, collecting the works of my predecessors who provided me with free resources in those years, as well as the works of Herbert W. Franke, a pioneer of generative art, and Sage Jenson, a young German artist from the 90s. In the professional generative art circle, there is really a lot of excellent content.
Wu Yishen’s interactive generative artwork “Return”, 2006.
Courtesy of MUD Gallery
LL：您如何看待NFT艺术的发展？在您看来，什么是好的数字艺术作品？
Wu Yishen：从美术馆和学术机构的角度来说，这可能是一个很好的机会来重新审视之前相对被忽视的生成艺术史，从全球范围来看，我们可以找到从60年代到现在的整个脉络，我强烈呼吁中国开始梳理自己的生成艺术史，这对大家和未来的发展都是非常重要的。在我看来，数字艺术的分类工程是非常有必要的，从创作工具、趣味方向到各种社群，都应该由不同专业的艺术家和策展人来完成，帮助大家；而分类成熟之后，好与坏自然也更容易体现。
LL：What do you think about the development of NFT art? In your opinion, what makes a good piece of digital art?
Wu Yishen：From the perspective of museums and academic institutions, this may be a great opportunity to revisit the history of generative art that was relatively neglected before, and globally, we can find the entire thread from the 60s to the present, and I strongly urge China to start sorting out its own generative art history, which is very important for everyone and future development. In my opinion, the classification project of digital art is very necessary, from creative tools, interesting directions to various communities, which should be completed by artists and curators of different professions to help everyone; and after the classification is mature, the good and bad will naturally be easier to reflect.
LL：除了收藏，还通过展览、讲座、历史研究等方式参与艺术生态。
Wu Yishen：年轻人比我有活力，每次交流都有收获。
LL：In addition to collecting, you also participate in art ecology through exhibitions, lectures, historical research, etc.
Wu Yishen：Young people are more energetic than me, and every time they communicate, they gain something.
LL：您能说出三位值得我们关注的中国当代艺术家吗？他们身上的 "闪光点 "是什么？
Wu Yishen：何赛邦、刘丹、郝亮是我一直关注的艺术家，他们在各自的创作道路上都取得了很好的成绩。
LL：Can you name three contemporary Chinese artists who deserve our attention? What is the “sparkle” in them?
Wu Yishen：He Saibang, Liu Dan, and Hao Liang are the artists I have always followed, they have all done great things on their respective creative paths; and in the future, I may turn another focus to generative art.
He Saibang, Landscape, 50 x 60 cm.
Courtesy of MUD Gallery
LL：在艺术界，谁给您的启发最大？
Wu Yishen：我的祖父吴湖帆。
LL：Who has inspired you the most in the art world?
Wu Yishen：My grandfather Wu Hufan.
LL：从您的艺术梦想是什么？
Wu Yishen：有一天，我的 "生成艺术 "能和我曾祖父吴大成、祖父吴湖帆的作品一起在美术馆展出。
LL：What is your dream in art?
Wu Yishen：One day, my generative art can be exhibited in an art museum together with the works of my great-grandfather Wu Dacheng and grandfather Wu Hufan.
Wu Yishen, 1*1, 2021, 44 x 31.5cm.
Courtesy of MUD Gallery